Curse

bcelmo · Mar 30, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

lately i`ve seen both on GW oriented forums and inside game that most of the so-called experieced players(none of them being a primary Necromancer tough) are washing the floors with Life Transfer. I`m still trying to understand why i am called n00b when i use my heavy degen/blood damage build in RA/TA, after i destroy most of caster builds and some of the warrior builds. I have problems only with intrerupters like rangers and i own Gale ppl. Anyone got an ideea ?
I consider that i know a lot about the necro and how to use it as i have played almost any possible necro build, starting from MM, SS/SV farming, MM solo, battery, support curses, in all of the possible battlegrounds in game: PvE, RA, TA, GvG, HoH and 12vs12 for the preview weekend. I can say that the LT degen build is the one i like the most as i can take on any char for myself and without help from the monk. For example a monk flamed on the team channel of a TA team that i should be kicked of the team .. that i use LT and i can curse once in 30secs. When i explained that i use Arcane Echo to have 2 LT`s in 30 secs he started calling me a noob as i have bad energy management.
My build is like this:
1. Life Transfer
2. Life Siphon
3. Shadow Strike
4. Vampiric gaze
5. Dark Pact
6. Conjure Phantasm
7. Arcane Echo
8. Res Signet

Is it so wrong and i`ve been playing this game for nine month for nothing ?

Cirian · Mar 30, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

It's not your problem

suiraCLAW · Mar 30, 2006, 10:24 AM // 10:24

The problem of Life transfer: max degen is -10 -> LT hit's 9 with awaken so you can't use any other form of degen (that's why conjure and siphon are a waste).

another problem is that monks will remove it when they notice it.

tips:
-use mark of subverion and echo it for an easy 200 life steal + you may hit an hex remover
-use parasitic bond for cover

Valkyries · Mar 30, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I had a similar problem to be honest with you.

I think its because its an easy hex to remove in situations like GVG/HA. So it renders your elite kinda useless if its only on for a few seconds and then the build isn't as viable.

However, I think in RA/TA it is pretty nasty.... as the above poster mentioned though, you REALLY want a cover condition. parasitic bond would definitely be my choice.

It drives me absolutely CRAZY when people on teams are like "OMG FFS n00b l2p, why do you use that talent?" WHEN in fact they have never tried a Necro, Mesmer, etc, let alone the skill you are using. People are so focued on what all the top guilds play, and anything apart from that is simply wrong. So its our goal as players to prove them wrong. Still you would think people would have a more opened mind. I have the same problem (I primarily play a Mesmer) and I hear "why did you take this skill"... umm... do you play a Mesmer? No, so shut it.... Its the same in any game like this. People think they are the best critic even if they dont know what they are talking about.

Of course I should point out this is a lot different than helpful/constructive critism.

Teutonic Paladin · Mar 30, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

The problem of Life transfer: max degen is -10 -> LT hit's 9 with awaken so you can't use any other form of degen (that's why conjure and siphon are a waste).

Maybe this has already been stated but there is such a thing as the tab key...

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 30, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

It's a 30 second recharge skill, and at the end of the day -9 degen isn't going to worry a monk. You'd actually be appyling more pressure if you took OoB for energy management, and spread Life Siphon and Phantasm around the entire opposing team.

bcelmo · Mar 30, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Actually what i ussualy achieve with this build is exactly what has been stated above about "the tab key". I both put pressure on the monk with 2 LT in 4 seconds on 2 different party members and i can spam Conjure Phantasm until the degen is there for more than 10 secs on each of the 4 team members. But i usually put 2 LT`s on 2 casters if available and after that i concentrate on degening + damaging the monk along with my teammates. This works good against non warrior centric random/team builds.
correct me with anything

Ole Man Bourbon · Mar 30, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Another problem with Life Xfer is that one Healing Breeze pretty much nullifies it. As far as a self-heal, max regen isn't enough to survive any kind of decent direct attack. It's a decent skill though.

I'm kinda taking a liking to Well of Suffering for some sneaky AOE DOTs, particularly with the new Necro Death skills (when they are active).

Lady Lorwinia · Mar 30, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Yeah. I'm also looking to take life transfer out of my skill bar.

The recharge is way to long.

And I can't stop cursing when a monk puts on healing breeze.

Then I use strip enchantment. And he uses it again. -.-

And strip enchantment has a 20 sec recharge. Annoying.

Burakus Lightwing · Mar 30, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

The problem of Life transfer: max degen is -10 -> LT hit's 9 with awaken so you can't use any other form of degen (that's why conjure and siphon are a waste).

another problem is that monks will remove it when they notice it.

tips:
-use mark of subverion and echo it for an easy 200 life steal + you may hit an hex remover
-use parasitic bond for cover

I disagree with you, except for parasitic-that is a must cover hex in degen builds. This has been in so many threads before. More hexes is more more hexes vs. other adversaries. The OP is using two LT's. I've done this myself.
In fact I've earned thousands of faction by running a good degen build. It takes practice and you need to know what/who you are facing and play it by ear each match as to what they are doing to try to counter your hexes.

I've also run this with and without Mark of Sub. Works well either way.

Drop one LT on one Target and another LT on another. If they throw up a HB or Trolls you can throw on that conjure + life siphon to counter. They will still degen. Not too mention at this point the necro is self-sustaining, the monk on your team can focus on other party members. I've run a very similar build to this. No Dark Pact, I prefer Barbed sig. or MoSub. Sure it can be interrupted but if not then I cause a little more damage while my energy regens a bit in the mean time.
I think that people who have never played a good degen build rip it because they don't understand the damage and chaos it can create. Throw LT and faintheartedness on a warrior cover with parasitic. drop your other LT + parasitic on a monk. Pick your 3rd target use Life Siphon + parasitic go back to the monk drop a conjure on him, keep the pressure on. Tehn go back to the warrior and hit him with another faint.
Will the monk remove? not if he just removes the conjure you just threw on him.
Heavy hex= heavy pressure. If they're removing/healing your hexes they're not attacking and your team is.
I love playing a good degen necro. In RA/TA and this past weekends 12vs12 it was a great build to use.
People that think it's a noob skill/build have probably never used it or not played it enough to truly enjoy the chaos/benefit of the build. Everyone has their own play style and if dishing out hexes is yours then go for it.
My advice, don't listen to them and have fun playing it. I'll be playing it right there with you.

holden · Mar 30, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing

I disagree with you, except for parasitic-that is a must cover hex in degen builds. This has been in so many threads before. More hexes is more more hexes vs. other adversaries. The OP is using two LT's. I've done this myself.
In fact I've earned thousands of faction by running a good degen build. It takes practice and you need to know what/who you are facing and play it by ear each match as to what they are doing to try to counter your hexes.

I've also run this with and without Mark of Sub. Works well either way.

Drop one LT on one Target and another LT on another. If they throw up a HB or Trolls you can throw on that conjure + life siphon to counter. They will still degen. Not too mention at this point the necro is self-sustaining, the monk on your team can focus on other party members. I've run a very similar build to this. No Dark Pact, I prefer Barbed sig. or MoSub. Sure it can be interrupted but if not then I cause a little more damage while my energy regens a bit in the mean time.
I think that people who have never played a good degen build rip it because they don't understand the damage and chaos it can create. Throw LT and faintheartedness on a warrior cover with parasitic. drop your other LT + parasitic on a monk. Pick your 3rd target use Life Siphon + parasitic go back to the monk drop a conjure on him, keep the pressure on. Tehn go back to the warrior and hit him with another faint.
Will the monk remove? not if he just removes the conjure you just threw on him.
Heavy hex= heavy pressure. If they're removing/healing your hexes they're not attacking and your team is.
I love playing a good degen necro. In RA/TA and this past weekends 12vs12 it was a great build to use.
People that think it's a noob skill/build have probably never used it or not played it enough to truly enjoy the chaos/benefit of the build. Everyone has their own play style and if dishing out hexes is yours then go for it.
My advice, don't listen to them and have fun playing it. I'll be playing it right there with you.

so what do you do in random or team when the warrior or ranger decide to get in your face? how do you keep them off?

Burakus Lightwing · Mar 30, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

so what do you do in random or team when the warrior or ranger decide to get in your face? how do you keep them off?

Had that happen a few times last night. Faintheartedness + parasitic+barbed sig. Then I proceeded to life siphon two targets. I kited a bit so while they are under faint and trying to hit me they're not as effective. Pick another target to conjure and come back to the warrior or ranger on me and...have plenty of energy to LT+faint+parasitic again.
Overkill on the degen? Not really. Those 3 = -11 (-10 effective I know the argument) if they trolls or HB I throw conjure on them.
Now 1) they attacked slow 2) I gained health while they lost health 3) I knew that when parasitic was over they'd be hurting and I'd get a nice little boost back to my health. Barbed sig while they where degening..almost offset their heal sig. if they used one.
At this point they are at about half health while I'm still looking good. I can do my chain over and I still have enough to throw a conjure + parasitic around. on other team members. If the warrior gets off of me I throw more hexes around.
If not then Faint.+parasitic+L.S. = roughly -5 or -6 degen. I try to get LS on two people so that I have some helth regen if they come at me right away. If I can hold LT unti they are half gone it really hurts them. I try to save LT + barbed for anyone under 1/2 health. It's not a build that I try to concentrate on any one person. Every scenario is different. I never just go into a match and go down my skill bar. Some people might do that but(imo) when hexing you really need to get a feel for what is happening before you start throwing hexes around.
Holden - i have seen your posts before and I know you don't like the degen build. I have no problem debating this with you. Please feel free to send me a message on your thoughts and I'll gladly message you back. Maybe this way you and I don't fill up another thread over the same topic we seem to have different views on.

holden · Mar 30, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing

Had that happen a few times last night. Faintheartedness + parasitic+barbed sig. Then I proceeded to life siphon two targets. I kited a bit so while they are under faint and trying to hit me they're not as effective. Pick another target to conjure and come back to the warrior or ranger on me and...have plenty of energy to LT+faint+parasitic again.
Overkill on the degen? Not really. Those 3 = -11 (-10 effective I know the argument) if they trolls or HB I throw conjure on them.
Now 1) they attacked slow 2) I gained health while they lost health 3) I knew that when parasitic was over they'd be hurting and I'd get a nice little boost back to my health. Barbed sig while they where degening..almost offset their heal sig. if they used one.
At this point they are at about half health while I'm still looking good. I can do my chain over and I still have enough to throw a conjure + parasitic around. on other team members. If the warrior gets off of me I throw more hexes around.
If not then Faint.+parasitic+L.S. = roughly -5 or -6 degen. I try to get LS on two people so that I have some helth regen if they come at me right away. If I can hold LT unti they are half gone it really hurts them. I try to save LT + barbed for anyone under 1/2 health. It's not a build that I try to concentrate on any one person. Every scenario is different. I never just go into a match and go down my skill bar. Some people might do that but(imo) when hexing you really need to get a feel for what is happening before you start throwing hexes around.
Holden - i have seen your posts before and I know you don't like the degen build. I have no problem debating this with you. Please feel free to send me a message on your thoughts and I'll gladly message you back. Maybe this way you and I don't fill up another thread over the same topic we seem to have different views on.

no no. im not even sweating life transfer or degen in general. you have your shit together. i still dont like it but you know what you say.

i just dont see how to keep the over abundance of warriors in arena play out of your face long enough to get anything off. if there's a monk on the team your in for a good time but without it they want to pound the next caster on the list, you or the mesmer. and with good warriors i can't believe faintheartedness alone will keep them at bay.

Bloodied Blade · Mar 30, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

A neat little cover hex: Phantom Pain

Lots of fun when the warrior realizes he just did something stupid in removing that one...as oppossed to losing ~20hp per second, now it's more like 22-25hp per second.

What you could also try is life transfer + phantom pain + shatter delusions + phantom pain, 10 degen + deep wound. I can actually make a pretty decent degen build out of the anti-warrior premade thing (I wanted to experiment with degen + ineptitude)... Inept is an absolutely amazing spike when phantom pain is off (deep wound)... It does effectively 120+ damage (as oppossed to 100, assuming fairly low ineptitude damage).

Drop Life Siphon on multiple targets (it annoys the monk), don't open with Life Transfer. - yes, I know it sounds odd, but most monks will see the hex and immediately try to pop it off, so open with Life Siphon on one or 2 guys, then use Life Transfer on 2 and cover them with Life Siphon and Phantom Pain.

If you haven't tried already, try swapping Phantom Pain in for Conjure Phantasm.

Kate Bloodspirit · Mar 30, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Problem with this build is very simple. Life Transfer means no real energy managemente skill.

Also, with life syphon/degen hexes spamming builds, your effectiveness only increases with a larger number of opponents, therefore, in RA/TA, your effectiveness decreases, until the point where it's more effective to run any other sort of direct damage like warriors or eles. Very simple.

suiraCLAW · Mar 31, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing

I disagree with you, except for parasitic-that is a must cover hex in degen builds. This has been in so many threads before. More hexes is more more hexes vs. other adversaries. The OP is using two LT's. I've done this myself.
In fact I've earned thousands of faction by running a good degen build. It takes practice and you need to know what/who you are facing and play it by ear each match as to what they are doing to try to counter your hexes.

I've also run this with and without Mark of Sub. Works well either way.

Drop one LT on one Target and another LT on another. If they throw up a HB or Trolls you can throw on that conjure + life siphon to counter. They will still degen. Not too mention at this point the necro is self-sustaining, the monk on your team can focus on other party members. I've run a very similar build to this. No Dark Pact, I prefer Barbed sig. or MoSub. Sure it can be interrupted but if not then I cause a little more damage while my energy regens a bit in the mean time.
I think that people who have never played a good degen build rip it because they don't understand the damage and chaos it can create. Throw LT and faintheartedness on a warrior cover with parasitic. drop your other LT + parasitic on a monk. Pick your 3rd target use Life Siphon + parasitic go back to the monk drop a conjure on him, keep the pressure on. Tehn go back to the warrior and hit him with another faint.
Will the monk remove? not if he just removes the conjure you just threw on him.
Heavy hex= heavy pressure. If they're removing/healing your hexes they're not attacking and your team is.
I love playing a good degen necro. In RA/TA and this past weekends 12vs12 it was a great build to use.
People that think it's a noob skill/build have probably never used it or not played it enough to truly enjoy the chaos/benefit of the build. Everyone has their own play style and if dishing out hexes is yours then go for it.
My advice, don't listen to them and have fun playing it. I'll be playing it right there with you.

Srry but did I say that LT sucks? I think not.

I explained him that LT is a hard degen, and that other degen doesn't stack + i told him that he shold use a cover hex.

About switching targets: you'll put a -9 on 2 people for like 11secs (maximum), but what will you do when LT ends? I bet you will say something like: "I'll put life syphon, conjure and parasitic on them for a constant -9 degen". But why do you need the elite LT for that? i still prefer OoB if you want to add pressure to a whole team.

But like I said: LT has his uses:
-It deals a good amount of dmg (~200)
-It gives a huge "healing breeze"-effect
-It's a monk's nightmare.

Actually, I play often with degen builds, and yes I played a few times with LT (so I do know what i'm talking about).

Anyway my LT I once runned in TA with my guildies:
-LT
-arcane echo
-MoSub
-awaken
-parasitic
-vamp gaze
-dark pact
-res sig

my combo:
echo + MoSub + LT + parasitic + MoSub (you have 75% chance that this one stops a hex remover) + gaze + dark pact = more then 450 life steal + some dmg.

Only prob with this one is that it completely drains energy and it's a waste if your teammates attack the same target.

GooD KaRmA · Mar 31, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Personnaly I like a N/Me for PVP, a little domination skills with backfire and cry of frustration should slow down the monks. I wish I could get my domination up as high as the Darkness in Tombs... As long as you have a solid team killing people who cares about energy, I usually have about 9 into soul reaping anyways. I've always wanted to build a primary mesmer and use Power Block. My opinion as along as you can keep spamming degeneration you're doing good damage. Life siphon is nice because it has the long duration with life being returned to you. I never really like conjure cause it ended so quickly.

ender6 · Mar 31, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

If you want to run a degen build then here is what I recommend:

As everyone has already stated cover with parasitic bond:

So it is 1. Awaken the blood 2. Arcane Echo 3. LT 4. Cover W/ Parasitic Bond
then 5. LT new tareget 6. cover w/Parasitic Bond.

Your skill set at this point:

-Awaken the blood
-Aracne Echo
-Life Transfer {E}
-Parasitic Bond

If you want to continue in the degen theme...(new target)
7. Conjure Phantasm 8.Phantom Pain 9.Cover Parasitc bond

you've now degen'd 3 targets -10/-10/-8.

Your skill set at this point

-Awaken the blood
-Aracne Echo
-Life Transfer {E}
-Parasitic Bond
-Phantom Pain
-Conjure Phantasm

Now how do you handle the interrupts? Mantra of Resolve of course. And for that last spot how about a either a finisher Vampiric Gaze or Rez signet.

-Awaken the blood
-Aracne Echo
-Life Transfer {E}
-Parasitic Bond
-Phantom Pain
-Conjure Phantasm
-Mantra of Resolve
-Rez Signet/Vampric Gaze

Ok now the two big problems:

1) You are maintaining 3 enchantments Arcane Echo and Awaken the blood and mantra of resolve. I gaurentee if you enter a battle with those 3enchantments and try to cast life transfer (2sec to get off) you are going to have the echo stripped and take dmg, or lose energy in the process.

2) After you are done casting everything you are for the most part depeleted of energy, now what do you do?? Stand there and look pretty?

That is why the LT build works better in conjunction with an oraganized team that has taken the build into account and has come up with counter measures to such things as enchantment stripping and energy depeltion. I'm sure in the Random Areans it also works becuase skill level is less, and teamwork isn't exactly all that.

*note Skill point distribution
Blood: 16 (Sup rune + Scar) Illusion: 9 Inspiration: 10 (remainder in curses)
Doing the breakdown by memory, should be something like this.

Hope this helps

Wretchman Drake · Apr 01, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

The problem of Life transfer: max degen is -10 -> LT hit's 9 with awaken so you can't use any other form of degen (that's why conjure and siphon are a waste).

another problem is that monks will remove it when they notice it.

tips:
-use mark of subverion and echo it for an easy 200 life steal + you may hit an hex remover
-use parasitic bond for cover

Keep in mind this is all hypothetical. How come whenever I PvP or PvE with my degen build I never run into these problems? Good monk builds are not usually set up for mass hex removal, and will they have time to remove every single one if they're getting pounded on ontop of that? How about you bring your monk build and test it against the degen henchie team in the Temple of Balthazar.

Here's why there's no problem with Life Transfer.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=79113

I've seen my build grow into popularity, a couple of people already reconized me as the creator of degen though I doubt that however I appreciated it

This build is pure degen. And for those who say there's no point in further degen beyond LT, why do you keep saying monks will remove it when they see it? You're setting yourself up for that one, that's why there are more degen spells in case your hypothetical situation does so happen to occur.

Conjure and Siphon are the other keys to this build they provide extra health regen and degen on the target. Do you realize that the enemies will try to heal from it with a form of Health Regen? It basically is useless to try to regen if you're getting pounded on with all these hexes, not to mention in my build I run it with Soul Barbs for extra damage. By the time I get all my degens out, it dealt over 100 spare damage already, that's pretty nice, and it helps if any mesmers help hex your target as well.

If you need a good degen build I can assure you mine is one of them. I love the build and in PvE nothing's like degening while your party wipes 'em out. I did degen with Burakus farming Griffons today and with us both combining our stuff we wooped 'em no problem, and it's nice to tank some of those Griffons for a cirtain period of time as well with 10 pips of regen on your bar and 70 armor from the Tormentor's set.

dgb · Apr 01, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Remember that LT is a hex, and thus it's as fragile as any other hex in the game. As a monk in RA, I'll go in with holy veil precast on three characters. I can tell who you are casting on then - if it's taking you ages to get it off it's onto a holy veiled character, and you don't stand a chance of getting a cover hex on before I can remove it. You've just burnt 10 energy and a 30s recharge skill for 20 damage max if I'm slow on the remove. Then you cast it on another and I'll remove that one as well - you're not getting a lot of value out of your elite. Life transfer doesn't scare me, it's fragile and not all that scary because it usually hinders your own hexes by capping out the degen.

What is scary in 4v4 is an ether prodigy powered degen spammer. Seeing every character with 5 degen on them, knowing that everyone of those hexes is going to last 20s and can be easily reapplied if removed is pretty depressing. A well placed suffering makes it nastier. Give me the life transfer guy - I can remove his hexes without a problem.